Sophie and Peter Johnston: Bio
Sophie and Peter Johnston
Sophie and Peter Johnston are a brother and sister synth pop duo from Newcastle upon Tyne, England. They formed in 1982 from the remnants of a new wave band ('one word') that comprised Sophie on vocals, Peter on guitar & vocals, their brother Tim on drums and an old school friend of Peter's on Bass. Borrowing a couple of synthesizers from a keyboard player acquaintance, they recorded some demos and soon afterwards came to the attention of DJ John Peel for whom they recorded two radio sessions in 1983.
He enthused of their music "I'm sorry you've just got to like this.. wonderful ... Hearing something like this means as much to me as the first time I heard Little Richard, and it means even more to me to be able to play it to you on the radio". His wife, 'the pig', phoned in several times to the show that featured their first session to express her delight with the music and later that year they became the only band to have a commercially unreleased (session) track voted into Peel's festive 50 in its' history (Television Satellite reached no. 37). Bill Nelson of Be bop Deluxe who was in the studio with Peel when he first aired their music hailed them as "excellent, extremely good" and ex Mott The Hoople drummer Dale 'Buff' Grifffin, who produced their two sessions, said they were "easily the best thing I've come across in a long long time".
There followed a frenzy of interest from a number of record labels (in one instance Dave Robinson of Stiff Records impulsively jumped on a train to Newcastle in a bid to track down and sign the pair on the spot) but unbelievably the duo had ill-advisedly already signed away all the rights to their music to a small time, London-based record industry hustler a few weeks before their first Peel session and the resultant clamour of interest.
It was almost a year before the duo were able to extricate themselves from the exploitative deal and then, managerless, they signed to Chrysalis Records who failed, for no apparent reason, to release any music by the pair and then dropped them after a year.
(Just before they left Chrysalis they were taken aside by a junior worker for Chrysalis Music, the music publishing arm of the label, who told them he was planning to leave his job and set up as an independent music manager and was interested in managing them. They met up with him one evening for talks and ended up going back to his batchelor pad where they stayed over sleeping on his sofa & floor. However, wary by now of the music business, they didn't follow through on his offer. His name was Simon Fuller who went on to manage the Spice Girls and S-Club 7.)
In 1985 they recorded, released and promoted their own single, 'Losing You', which they sold by mail order & whose run of a thousand copies sold out within a couple of months. It became single of the week in Smash Hits magazine and was played on Radio 1 by John Peel and also Simon Bates who interviewed Peter on his show & said "You will remember me when you're famous and stop to give me a lift in your Limo won't you?"
Later that year a fellow geordie and ex Newcastle studio assistant approached them with the offer of a recording contract from a friend of his who was leaving his job at Mercury Records & was about to set up his own label. A deal was thrashed out in which Peter & Sophie retained complete artistic control over their music and acquired the right to produce and record their work themselves. In 1986/87 three singles and an album were released on I-Major/WEA Records with their debut single 'Happy Together' making the Radio 1 playlist but falling just short of a top 40 chart placing. Their album was critically acclaimed (Q magazine "(Their songs are) ..buoyant aural fizz bombs which radiate a zestful, uplifting exuberance. If there were any justice in this flighty, ephemeral world of pop these songs would be perched imperiously atop Hitsville's loftiest spires. 4/5 stars") but due possibly to the lack of a hit single from it failed to sell in any significant quantities.
The duo disbanded in 1989 and that was the way things remained until 2006 when renewed interest from fans via the internet persuaded them to repackage and re-release some of their 80s tunes as well as to produce a brand new laptop recorded album of lushly orchestrated, synth pop songs entitled, as was their 1986 album, 'Sophie and Peter Johnston'.
INTERVIEW WITH SOPHIE, NOV. 2006
Hi Pete finally I get round to answering the questions. Sorry it’s taken so long but I just haven’t been able to find the time or Jim has been on the computer as he is very busy setting up his business.
Funnily enough we have been sorting out cupboard which has involved looking through boxes of stuff - photos, college essays, old birthday cards and letters etc and I came across a few old copies on ‘No1’, ‘Smash Hits’ and ‘Record Mirror’ (1985/86). God, they really do look so dated – on further investigation I located photos of us within the delicate pages - we look so young and green wherein lies the problem me thinks – the lack of good management! To this day it still amazes me – without wanting to sing (if you’ll pardon the pun!) mine and Pete’s own praises too much, the stuff we were producing was well worthy of slotting into the musical climate of its time. Why the hell didn’t we make it then? I ask myself that question often. Did we want it enough?
Whatever I still feel very frustrated about the whole episode. Dare I say, in the odd moment of madness, I have been known to fancy my chances on ‘X Factor’, but then feared the humiliation of a knock out at audition stage!!
I still love singing which at the moment amounts to singing with the kids at school as a teacher. I would like at some point to join a choir as I love choral music - like Mam and Dad who have sung in Newcastle Bach Choir for many years.
Now let me ‘Travel (back) in Time’ - incidently the title of a very old S&PJ synth track that I seem to remember recording the vocal for in about 20mins during a lunch hour from school! – to the 80’s.
Can you remember what the first recording you did with Peter that you sang on was?
Let me think I’m not sure what the track was but I was sweet 16 and it was probably in his bedroom at home. The first studio recording we did was financed with Pete’s dole money at a place called Lynx Studio – we recorded there a few times.
What bands and artists were you into at the time of Sophie & Peter Johnston and which ones were your main singing influences?
My musical tastes have always been wide and varied. Back then I was into Judy Tzuke, Chaka Khan, Heaven 17, The Cocteau Twins, Japan, Nick Kershaw, The The and definitely anything with a killer funky bass!!
I heard that you come from a musical family as well?
That’s very true – we could have been the Johnston Six! All my brothers and sisters sing and we all learnt to play an instrument from the age of ten/eleven. I still play the flute. Julia (the playwright/actress of the family) and myself took music A level where we got to write melodies and harmonies. I enjoyed that. Mam and Dad are a huge influence as talented singers and musicians themselves. I remember going with Dad to see him playing the French horn for musicals and operas on several occasions.
What did it feel like being the singer in a pop band & did you enjoy the attention that came with it?
It never really felt like a pop band apart from the occasional interview about bollocks like what colour socks do you wear. I wasn’t the kind of person who took compliments seriously – It was more like I enjoy singing and I’m glad my brother can write fantastic tracks that I love to be part of. I never really believed I had a voice any different from any other girl who could sing in tune. I’m not sure how I would have coped with real pop stardom.
You were quite young when you recorded your first John Peel session, what did your school friends think of it all?
I’m not sure many of them even knew who John Peel was! My close friends were suitably impressed – I suppose I didn’t really talk about it at school.
What were the high points of the course that S&PJ took?
Well definitely the sessions on the radio – it was somehow unreal hearing yourself on the radio and then to hear John Peel saying things like hearing us meant more to him than the first time he heard little Richard was just mind blowing, especially as he was not a man associated with being over enthusiastic about much. I remember we did some gigs in London in 89 I think, and one in particular sticks in my mind. A blind guy had managed to find The White Horse, a pub in Brixton, for the gig. He had travelled some distance to get there and someone had walked him from the tube station. He was so overwhelmed to hear our set and talk to us after. I made me feel really good and honoured that someone had gone to such lengths to hear us live.
What about low points?
Oh God – all the legal shit we got wrapped up in. It’s so incredibly frustrating when all you want to do is have as many people as possible listen to your music and some bas…d is screwing you for every penny they can get their money grabbing paws on. This was the case after the Peel sessions – the instant buzz from record companies immediately after the broadcast to the months of trying to be bought out of a contract we had signed for nothing. I am convinced that this was our biggest chance to break into the main stream and it was thwarted by greedy men who negotiated the best deal for themselves. As Peely said referring to the music industry – “ a profoundly unpleasant business” how right you were.
By the time we got out of the contract the S&PJ buzz was fizzling out as other bands took over.
What was the funniest thing that happened to you when you were in the duo?
I remember recording at the Solid State Logic (SSL) studio near Oxford and me and Pete were sharing a twin room in a nearby hotel. The owner said as he showed us the room – ‘the beds aren’t very strong if you know what I mean’ – yuk! He thought we were husband and wife! On another occasion at a studio outside Edinburgh in the sound engineer's house which we also stayed in, we were having breakfast one morning and their huge dog was under the table humping my bloody leg – I was too embarrassed to say anything.
How did you react when you heard that John Peel had passed away?
It felt like it was the end of an era. He was a well respected man and too young to die. I felt sad that I never got to meet him.
Were you surprised that he didn't release the S&PJ sessions on his 'Strange Fruit' record label and why do you think that was?
Yes I was a bit. I don’t know why – it does seem strange as he loved the sessions so much. I’m glad we made it into his festive fifty one year.
Are you surprised that a number of people still remember S&PJ and that it still means enough to them, even after 20 odd years, for them to try to track the band down on the web?
I must admit I’m amazed. I really didn’t imagine for one minute that so many people would have heard of us let alone still remember us. It’s mad how I still meet people who heard the Peel sessions and remember them or even recorded them at the time.
Do you still listen to music now and what, if any, bands or artists do you enjoy?
Of course I still listen to Music, but nothing like as much as I used to. I still like dance stuff with a groove, interesting chords progressions and a funky bass line. At the moment I listen to Jamie Cullen, Dirty Vegas, U2 and a compilation of stuff on the IPod and of course S&PJ and other solo stuff that Pete has written – brilliant tunes needless to say!!
Any chance that you might do any more music with Pete as Sophie and Peter Johnston? A second album perhaps?
Now there’s a thought. I would love to, but practically it would be difficult as I live in London and Pete lives in Newcastle. I certainly wouldn’t rule out the idea though. I loved singing Pete’s songs – I think they suit my style of voice. Mind you I haven’t recorded my voice for a long – I’m sure it’s not what it was!
Thanks Sophie.
Cheers.
Part One of former S&PJ manager Tom McCluskey's impressions of the early days (Dec. 2006)
In the early 1980s I was second engineer at Lynx Studios in Newcastle upon Tyne. Being second engineer meant I got to do all the off peak sessions in the evenings, the majority of which were generally dreadful and occasionally offensive to the ears.
There were however a few highlights, Jimmy Nail's King Crabs and a young band called One Word being two of them. Jimmy and the Crabs were hilarious and I often cried with laughter during their wild and raucous sessions, One Word on the other hand were quite serious and obviously aiming to do something constructive with their music, they were also nice friendly people and easy to work with, unlike some of the obnoxious characters I had to deal with. The first few sessions they did went well and the music wasn't bad at all, it was well structured and very listenable but if I'm honest it didn't set me on fire.
A couple of weeks went by and they came in again, this time it was only Pete, Sophie and Tim. Pete said we're going to try something different tonight and brought in two synths, no guitar or bass, this was definitely going to be different. We set everything up and began laying the backing tracks and as the session progressed I began to realise that something special was happening, the music was wonderful and I remember smiling to myself and thinking, this was music worth listening to. I enthused to both Pete and Sophie how good the music was and how much I was enjoying myself. I was astounded at the sounds Pete was getting from what were very basic synths (Roland SH 09 and a Roland RS 09 String machine), the arrangements and melodies were really reaching somewhere deep inside me, now I was on fire.
I cannot begin to express how good this music was at that time, it was as if Pete was painting with sound, the textures and layers all combining to create a fantastic picture and a highly original Demo. By the time we had completed Sophie's vocals I was almost in a state of rapture, the naivety of her voice lilting across the wonderful sound structures that Pete had created culminated in one of the most original recordings I had ever heard. We finished sometime after midnight and I remember telling Pete and Sophie how good I thought the session had turned out and that I would be playing the tracks to the owners of the studio in the morning. When I got home I couldn't resist having another listen to the demo, the song that stood out was Television/Satellite and I played it over and over again, it must have been around three AM when I eventually went to bed.
Next morning I rushed into work to see John and Phil who owned the studio, I said "you have to listen to this" and raved how good it was.
I played the session and asked what they thought and they said disparagingly "you like that", of course I do I said, surely you do too.
They both answered in the negative and I can honestly say I was shocked, how could they not appreciate how good this music was.
Undeterred I told them that one way or another I was going to be involved with Pete and Sophie because they were the best thing I'd heard in years, I remember Phil saying dismissively "you're welcome to them" which was I felt was a bit unnecessary. I asked if there was any way I could get some studio time to refine and do more demos and Phil said maybe there was, if he could get a share of the publishing rights then off peak time would be available to us. I can't remember all the details, but after speaking to Pete we must have come to some sort of arrangement with Phil as we did get off peak studio time.
In the following months we produced more excellent demos and discussed how awful the music business was, my personal opinion at that time was that managers were generally parasitic and not too honest.
More of Tom McCluskey's reminiscences of the early days (March 2007)
One of Phil's London contacts a guy called John Ravenhall came into the studio one day and by chance (me banging on about how good this music was) heard the demos and was reasonably impressed with them. He said he would play them to a few people and see what feedback he got, so I gave him a couple of copies and went back to my work. A few weeks went by and he came up again and said there was interest from a company by the name of Circle Productions, he gave me their address and said I should contact them. I wrote them a few letters but never received any replies. John later told me that John Carter of Sunny Records was interested in a possible record deal and they would be writing to me, however after the Circle Productions debacle I decided to wait and let them do the running.
In the following months we produced more excellent demos and discussed how awful the music business was, my personal opinion at that time was that managers were generally parasitic and not too honest, but somehow or other I had become Pete and Sophie's manager, my experience was limited but I had a burning conviction and desire that the world was going to hear this music. So in the late spring of 1982 armed with a bag of demo tapes, a A to Z street map of London and a formidable list of record companies I headed off to the capital city ready to take the record industry by storm.
I had arranged to stay in Reading with a couple who I had known for a couple of years, they couldn't offer me a room but said I would be welcome to use their sofa or floor. Unfortunately they had an uncontrollable, nasty vicious bulldog with the misleading name of Bumble, far from being a Bumble, he was a cold, calculating, slobbering monster who ceaselessly tried to mount anyone who came within striking distance. He would growl menacingly and tried to bite if you dared to try pushing him off, his owners for some reason thought his actions were funny and eventually took him into the garden telling him not to be so naughty. They thought he was cute, "CUTE" all I could think of was where could I buy a shotgun. Next morning I was up early and after carefully avoiding Bumble I set off into central London full of hope
INTERVIEW WITH PETE, PART 1, AUG. 2006.
Pete, what are your thoughts now about Sophie & Peter Johnston?
Well, it's like a whole gamut of things. Firstly, and this may sound comical as we're talking about the music business, mainly I think about the music. Unusual I know, but that was always the crux for me. It's unfortunate that we only have wobbly cassettes of most of the recordings we did that we have any record of at all but that's also largely unavoidable down to the limited accesibility of professional recording technology of the time.
What was it like recording that first session for Peel?
Well we were pleased when John Walters (Peel's producer) phoned & asked us to do a session. He said you've got to do the 3 tracks on the demo tape we sent in (Television Satellite, Rain & Paradise) plus one other so I set about writing a new track. I asked Sophie what I should write the words about as she had to sing them, she said she fancied John Taylor from Duran Duran but was frustrated because loads of girls her age also liked him and she felt like she was just one face among thousands in an adoring crowd with no chance or something. Anyway inspired by that I wrote 'One Face'.
But the actual session, did you have any inkling of the appreciation John Peel would have?
No, not really. Not to that extent anyway. Of course we knew what we'd recorded had come out pretty well but we had him down mainly as an afficianado of strange, atonal, left field, noisy type stuff and didn't associate him too much with the kind of music we were trying to do. Then he says "basically I'm a pop music guy & hearing something like this means as much to me as the first time I heard Little Richard".
Who else was involved in the session apart from Sophie, you and John Peel?
Well actually that's a common misconception about Peel sessions. He's not involved at all in that you don't meet him & he's not there at the studio (at Maida Vale in London) which is quite a long way from Broadcasting House. I did eventually meet him in about 2000 at a Radio 1 thing in Newcastle where my opening gambit was "Hi John, I'm one half of Sophie and Peter Johnston" (I have a speech hesitation & was avoiding having to introduce myself as P..P..P..Peter) eliciting the dry response "I take it you're not Sophie then". But at the recording studio was producer Dale Griffin (nominally in charge and ex drummer of glam pop band Mott The Hoople among who's fans I did not number but who seemed a decent enough if slightly cantankerous bloke - he actually did very little unlike...), sound engineer Martin Colley who basically ran the session (under the theoretical auspices of Dale Griffin). What a joy of a man. Eccentric, animated, jocular, obviously musical and clearly brilliant in his role. We worked with him a few months later on some other recordings no copies of which are now in my possession other than for a fluttery cassette of one instrumental track '19' (nothing to do with the Paul Hardcastle tune which was released a few years subsequently). Also there was Newcastle studio engineer and our acting manager of the time Tom McCluskey. We we put him down on the musicians union (I still find them a useless bunch unless you're a 67 year old retired jazz saxophonist looking for financial assistance) session form as having played synthesizer even though he didn't so we could pick up an extra session fee. We were actually very skint at the time. My parents lent us the money for our train fares from Newcastle to London. We ended up missing the last train back to Newcastle and spending the night (February, it was bloody freezing) on the King's Cross station platform pacing up and down in our inadequate clothing in an attempt to keep warm till the first morning train arrived. We had no money for a hotel or anything and we were carrying our synthesizers aound in large carrier bags.
I heard reports that you fell out with the manager shortly after all this.
Well he fell out with us because he wasn't happy about being dismissed by me.
Why did you sack him?
He was a friendly bloke who meant well and we got on well personally but it was under his inexpert guidance that we had signed a terrible record deal a number of months before the Peel session. He had told us that he had a lawyer look at the contract who gave it the thumbs up but later (after the Peel session) we found out the contract with 'Sunny Records' was so drastically biased against us that it only just stood up legally. The company was under no obligation to us to release, record or promote any of our music and there were no advances to us whatsoever. We gave them ourselves & all the rights to any music we were to do over the next 3 years for absolutely nothing with no obligation on their part to do anything with any music we did do. The guy from Sunny Records couldn't lose! Anyway after ill-advisedly signing to him I contacted him a considerable number of times to determine what plans he had for us only to discover to my horror and intense frustration that he had none. He was not going to do anything with the songs of ours he now owned the rights to and he wasn't going to finance any recordings. He was basically just going to shelve us and forget about us without any need for him to release us from the contract. He could hold on to us at no cost & with no obligations just in case anything happened with us. I badgered the guy with phone calls asking for a meeting and he grew increasingly irritable and annoyed and on at least one occasion hung up on me.
So what happened then?
Well I thought I'd better set about some self promotion as it plainly wasn't going to come from anywhere else. That's when I sent off demo tapes to amongst others John Peel.
And then the session and...?
Well the day following the session the there was frenzied interest from lots of record companies - the world and his dog wanted to sign us. I didn't deal with any of them directly as I would have done had we not signed that accursed contract, instead they were pointed towards Tom McCluskey and Sunny Records. I felt sick to be honest. One story I heard later was that Dave Robinson, the then boss of Stiff Records, had got on a train to Newcastle without even knowing who he was going to contact such was his eagerness. The manager at this time was like a giddy schoolboy - "can you believe what Peel said?!" - his complete amazement & surprise was a bit too strong for my liking and smacked to me of someone who hadn't really believed that much in our music to begin with. Anyway his attitude was typified by a comment he made when (pre Peel session) I had relayed my frustration with Sunny Records to him and he said (quote) "at least the man was good enough to sign you". Anyway, that's all water under the bridge now and I was probably only slightly less green than the manager in any case.
So Pete, what happened about the interest from the different record companies following the first John Peel session?
Well guess what the phone rings and who is it but a drastically and miraculously transformed John Carter (the Sunny Records boss) who is now, surprise surprise, all sweetness and light - "Peeeter. Congratulations! You were marvellous." I could see the dollar signs in his eyeballs down the phone line. "We're coming up to Newcastle to take you out for a meal & discuss plans." The two facedness of the man was breathtaking. Needless to say Tom McCluskey was of the mind 'Give the man a chance Peter. Hear what he has to say.' We went to an Italian restaurant and I found it very difficult lighten up even after quaffing a not insubstantial quantity of booze at his expense. I just couldn't bring myself to warm to the man or trust him in any way. To be honest I despised him and all he stood for in my mind. He was like 'well what would you like to do next Peter?' and I was like 'well get rid of you for a start!'
So what plans did you make with Sunny Records?
When he got the message that I wasn't going to work with him he set about, in an unhurried fashion you understand (it wasn't any of his concern that the buzz around us wouldn't last for ever & needed to be acted on quickly), trying to sell us to the highest bidder. He had no trouble finding interest - they were coming to him - but he pushed and pushed for as much as he could milk out of us which delayed proceedings. It was about this time at a meeting at my parents house that I informed Tom McCluskey, as tactfully as I could, that his managerial 'services' would no longer be required by us but that of course I would do right by him and I arranged to have a fair settlement made to him involving a share of any advance we received together with a proportion of any future earnings we made over the following few years. Furious he stormed out of the house slamming the front door so hard that the place shook. A couple of years later when I lived in London I heard that the name of Sophie and Peter Johnston was mud around Newcastle - he had spread the word that we had 'seriously ripped him off'. He was still managing bands at that point I learned - no doubt trading on his reputation as the manager who got Sophie and Peter Johnston a deal. Anyway... Good luck to him, he did his best I suppose.
So, what happened with John Carter and Sunny records?
Well eventually he struck up a deal with Chrysalis who were prepared to put up the most cash. Sophie and I were eager to crack on and get moving but unfortunately we were advised in the strongest possible terms by our lawyer not to agree to the deal because guess what, John Carter wanted nearly all of the advance from Chrsalis for himself leaving us with virtually nothing. We're talking in the tens of thousands of pounds which at the time (1984) was a lot of money. Anyway so began the exchange of letters between his lawyer & ours which went on, and on, and on,.. Finally it was sorted. We were shot of Carter. We were also managerless which in retrospect was probably the first thing we should have addressed but we didn't know that at the time. We had a keen supporter in the Chrysalis A&R department (Peter Lawton) who I think had been instrumental in persuading the company to do the deal which was great but, unknown to us, this fell well short of what was required if we were to progress. I think in our naivety we thought that once you were signed to a company that wanted you they would organise things for you & set things in motion. This wasn't to be the case and after a year with no recordings, other than two or three song demos, and no releases they dropped us. I remember being introduced to the boss of Chrysalis, Chris Wright, in his office where he sat behind a monster desk with a huge painting on the wall behind him of a naked woman, legs apart splayed over the bonnet of a sports car. And I remember thinking 'My God, we're working for this guy!'.
INTERVIEW WITH PETE (PART 2) SEPT. 2006
Hello again. Can I start on a slightly different tack by asking where your inspiration for writing/recording/playing music originally came from?
Hi. Do you mean musical influences and that sort of thing or..?
Yeah, well I guess we could start there.
Well synth pop wise I listened to everything I could & tried to take what I thought were the best bits from what was around. Human League, Depeche Mode, Soft Cell, Kraftwerk, Scritti Politti and later things like Propaganda but I'd been playing guitar long before I got into synths which was kind of an experiment or accident. I mean at the time there was a bit of freshness and excitment about synthy things, it was kind of like the opening of a new chapter in pop and when a friend lent me some synths I started messing about and thought 'hang on, this sounds interesting'.
So it wasn't kind of a pre-planned design?
God no. I was just following a gut instinct & going with the tide of fashion.
If you do have a 'trademark' sound then, apart from Sophie's voice, it's arguable that it's something to do with those tinkly celestial arpeggios that feature in quite a few of your tunes. How did that come about, was it conscious?
Yes and no. In part it was an attempt to fill out the sound with floating high register broken chord notes because the sound of the cheap synths I was using was a bit thin, also one of the synths I borrowed was a Roland RS-09 string/organ which on a certain setting lent itself to dainty chiming airy tinkling. Another thing was I wanted to create an individual sound and although some synths had an automatic arpeggiation facility that just picked random notes from the chord shapes you were holding down, I wanted to program in the notes in an order that made more musical/rhythmical sense to me and hopefully was more evocative. It was originally just an embellishment but then became more of a hallmark.
What inspired your lyrics?
Well, partly I had to think about what would work with Sophie's voice and also what would fit in with her outlook.
What's the age gap between the two of you?
Hmm.. about 6 and 1/2 years.
So ..
Yeah she was into Noddy & I was absorbed with Karl Marx! No, I mean I tried to write ambiguous lyrics a bit, you know like Television Satellite (which actually came from my younger brother Tim's suggestion to write about "washing machines or refrigerators or something" as opposed to the social conscience type lyrics I had been writing a lot of at that time).There were also the early spacey theme type lyrics like Interstellar Love & Starlight, then there were the customary trite pop lost love/found love type of themes. Then again Open Up was about Maggie Thatcher & what I visualised in my head in a vague 'video storyboard' kind of way was Sophie & Me bursting into Number 10 Downing Street & holding her up at gunpoint & demanding more financial help for the worse off members of society!
And what was your aim with the music?
... To make the most scintillating, uplifting, carefree, joyous pop tunes that we could.
Okay, returning to the post Chrysalis time. You did an independent single didn't you?
Yes.
On 'Smash The Majors' wasn't it?
Well no that was just a slogan I chose to print on the single, it wasn't meant to be like the name of a record label.
But what were you getting at when you wrote it?
Well I have been known as a bit of an agitator at times and although we were doing pop which isn't generally noted for it's polemics I didn't want to fit in easily to bland stereotypes & expectations. I mean I was trying to make a serious point, a kind of rallying cry for the independents but also I knew it would make an unusual juxtaposition with the music i.e. you'd normally associate controversial provocative catchphrases like that with uncommercial nihilistic or anarchistic bands who probably wouldn't be making melodious pop music.
Was it not also a cheap shot at getting attention though?
Well of course it was! It worked as well. Simon Bates played the record a number of times & interviewed me on his Radio One show and he admitted it had been the disparity between the music and the slogan that had attracted him.
Did John Peel support it?
Yes, good old sadly departed John Peel. He didn't care much for it though you could tell. Thought it was a bit of a let down after the sessions I think. Still he played it and plugged it & we sold a few hundred by mail order. 'Number One' magazine, which was a kind of like the other 'Smash Hits' of it's day, even made it their single of the week which we were fairly chuffed about considering it was a bedroom production promoted solely by me.
And then you signed to Warner Brothers/WEA which sort makes the 'Smash the Majors' idea look a bit hypocritical doesn't it?
We never signed to Warner Brothers and never would have. We signed with a small company called I-Major Records who then licensed our recordings to Warners. They allowed us pretty much complete artistic & creative control over what we did which we never would have had at Warners. The boss of Warners even called me up to his office & remonstrated with me about the lyrics (he thought songs about physical child abuse as in 'Run Away', drink problems as in 'Getting On', etc.were not what Johnny or Josie punter wanted to hear), he said I needed help with my drum patterns & bass lines and said that by trying to record an album at home - which is what, pretty unconventionally for the time, we were doing - we were "jerking off into the wind". I just said "listen Mr. Dickens you stick to your job and I'll stick to mine". He was frustrated because he knew that due to the terms of the deal we had with I-Major he couldn't force us into doing anything we didn't want to. I wrote the track 'Take That Jerkin Off!' which was on our album as a tribute to him!
I listened to (Radio 1 new single releases of the week review programme) Round Table chaired by Janice Long in about 1987 when she played 'Torn Open' and I remember her saying rather patronizingly "they used to be on Smash The Majors and now they're on Warner Brothers".
Ah yes. Dear Janice. To be fair it did say WEA on the record as well as I-Major which shouldn't have happened so maybe it was a bit confusing. I don't think she had any idea though that labels like, for example, 'Blanc Y Negro' who had The Jesus And Mary Chain were actually in the same position as I-Major as regards WEA (i.e. they licensed their recordings through them too) only they didn't show it on their record sleeves.
You certainly weren't compliant and malleable customers from the record companies view point by the sounds of it then.
No. Almost to the point of working to our own detriment at times. But, well I can't really speak for Sophie, but I always felt a complete outsider to 'the pop scene' and 'the indie scene'. I don't think we ingratiated ourselves to either camp and of course we didn't have a manager and didn't do any gigs. Well, not until much later anyway. I don't think we had a huge focussed ambition & eagerness to be pop stars at all. We were both pretty shy and to be honest a bit uncomfortable with & confused by the whole business side of things.
Finally, would you do things differently if you could go back and have the same opportunites all over again?
I won't say I don't have any regrets & that I didn't make some silly mistakes but no because I think that without the naivety, foibles and 'detachedness' that ultimately made us flounder we would never have been able to make the music we did. And I remain proud of, if not all of it, then at least of a decent part of it.
So what about now? Sophie's living in London isn't she and you're based here in Newcastle?
Yes, Sophie's a primary school teacher in London and, I'm sure she won't mind me saying, was recently married. I'm still pursuing the music on and off as well as being a 'house husband' - my wife & I have four children. My latest project is under the name of Francis Campbell and is an instrumental folky guitar album which you can check out at www.franciscampbell.net . I've just started writing some more acoustic guitar tunes for the next CD and that's going slowly but steadily.
Thanks Pete. Give my best wishes to Sophie and good luck with your musical ventures.
Thanks.
Email correspondence from S&PJ ex-manager Tom McCluskey & Pete's reply (Nov. 2006)
Since this initial email exchange below (the first time Tom & I have been in communication since 1983) which understandably was somewhat charged & fraught, especially considering the nature of some of the comments regarding him contained in one of the above interviews, (and no, the significance/irony of the email being sent on Guy Fawkes night hasn't totally escaped me!) there has been more email correspondence between the two of us and happily things have mellowed out somewhat with fortunately a greater air of cordiality & mutual understanding being established.
Tom has agreed to contribute his recollections and memories of the early S&PJ era to this site which I welcome and look forward to. Warts and all. Thanks Tom.[Okay then tell them about what a stroppy B****rd I was! -as if they couldn't work that one out!] He has also been very helpful in accessing copies of old S&PJ recordings, more news of which hopefully soon.
So, welcome back on board Tom and great (if a little scary at first!) to be in touch again after so many years. Thanks.
But first, .. fasten your seat belts..
(5th November, 2006)
"Hi Pete
It's been a long time since we've spoken to each other. I've just read the Bio on your web site and I have to say I feel absolutely gutted by your description of me.
I can clearly remember standing in your parents front room, you were standing to my left, S|ophie was sitting at the piano and your mum was standing to my right.
I'd just returned from a long and uncomfortable week (sleeping on floors) in London and told you that the only thing on offer at that time was from shit head John Carter.
I had tramped my way around as many record companies as was possible on the meagre resources that I had. Chrysalis wouldn't even let me leave a demo nor would
they let me make an appointment with A&R, I later told Pete Lawton about this and he said that the recepionist had been sacked but I didn't believe him. Anyway back to
your parents front room, you wanted to sign the sunny contract there and then and I said no, it would have to be checked out by a lawyer. You said you just
wanted to get a record released and I told you that I still had reservations about sunny. you wanted to press on regardless. I may have been green as we all were,
but every thing I did was under your instruction. As far as me saying give the man a chance goes, it was an effort at diplomacy on my part so that something might
be salvaged from the situation. You once even told me that you thought I was in collusion with Carter, you will never know how much that hurt me. I was the only one who
believed in you and I worked for nothing and got you free studio time. Even afer we parted company I was willing you on to success, so much was my faith in your music.
I have never once bad mouthed you and Sophie in any way at any time, I still cherrish the memories of the time we spent together and still have the original demos
we did at Lynx. Whoever said that I was bad mouthing you LIED, whenever I saw Dave Maughan I used to ask how you were doing and to pass on my regards but I don't
know if he ever did.
I always believed in your music and always will and I still hold you and Sophie in the highest regard.
I wish you both well and the best of things for the future.
Tom"
Pete replied (7th November, 2006) :
"Hi Tom,
I'm sorry that you feel I've misrepresented you on the S&PJ website Bio.
I may not be totally accurate in every detail but one key fact is evident i.e. that it was under your managership that we signed the unfortunate Sunny Records deal. Having said that I tried to be careful not to put all of the responsibility for that at your door and I accept that I was at
least in part responsible myself. I had to be as it was me who asked you to be our manager.
We were of course very appreciative of the free studio time that you obtained for us prior to the first Peel session and the fact that I didn't mention this was either arbitrary or maybe slightly neglectful on my part, I'm not sure which. It was undoubtedly important and helpful to us at the time.
I know that you believed in our music and I hadn't forgotten that you'd spent a week taking our demo tape around a number of London record companies in an effort to attract interest and again for these I am thankful to you. However it's not true to say you were the only one who believed in us. I did and my parents did. But I don't really want to get into a tit for tat argument over points on which we may differ.
Okay, if you say you didn't badmouth us then I believe you. Of course I was basing my belief on what I'd heard people say and clearly people sometimes speak bullshit.
Also in retrospect I was probably a bit hard-hearted and uncharitable in my portrayal of you. So again I apologise for that.
I too wish you well and would like also to fondly cherish the time we spent together but this is made somewhat arduous by the fact that any sentimentality and warm feelings I probably would have had about that time have been quashed and trampled on to a large degree by the huge weight of
personal disappointment at not having achieved with Sophie as much as I'd hoped we would. But personal feelings like that aside, I'm glad you got in touch and put over your side of the early S&PJ days and I'd like to suggest/request permission that these 2 letters be posted up on the S&PJ website if that's okay by you.
Thanks again for making contact.
Best wishes,
Pete Johnston"
Equipment used by S&PJ at one time or another
Sound Master memory rhythm SR-88
Roland SH-09 monophonic synthesizer
Roland RS-09 Strings/organ synth.
Roland MC-4 microcomposer sequencer
Sequential Circuits Pro-One mono synth.
Roland TR808 drum machine
Roland Jupiter-8 polyphonic synthesizer
Movement drum computer
Sequential Circuits Prophet VS polysynth.
PPG Wave 2.3 polysynth.
Roland MSQ-700 sequencer
Roland D-50 polysynth
Akai S900 sampler
Yamaha TX-802 multi timbral synth module
Roland SDE-3000 digital delay
Lexicon PCM-70 digital reverb
Eventide H910 harmonizer
Roland Dimension D
Atari 1040ST computer running Steinberg Pro-24 sequencing software
Souncraft 1600 series 24 channel mixer
Souncraft 24-track 2" analogue tape machine
Allen & Heath series 21 mixer
Roland SRV2000 reverb
Drawmer DS201 gates
Aphex type C aural exciter
Brook Siren Systems DPR 402 compressor/limiter/de-esser
Neumann U87 microphone
Washburn 335 style semi-acoustic electric guitar